Curse

Legendary Battousai · Jan 09, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Dervish builds are extremely strong at the flag stand and on a split, countering both condition heavy splits, and blind spamming ones. Melandru's Dervish especially counters the meta of burning arrow + yaa wars and are easy to split. Also concider rits with weapon of remedy, its a very powerful skill :]

Etrik · Jan 09, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

So is the consensus that YAA+BHA+Vengeful Rt/E is the best split atm?

And Stealth Rider, people run YAA and go /A for Sig of Malice. It owns in splits, especially with a BHA/BA ranger. There's almost no chance for you to not get 2 conditions off every 5 seconds, except if the person has Purge. And that's on a 20-s recharge anyways.

Thom Bangalter · Jan 09, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

I would agree with that assessment Etrik.

Sc also has a very nice split at the moment.

Stealth Rider · Jan 09, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

And Stealth Rider, people run YAA and go /A for Sig of Malice. It owns in splits, especially with a BHA/BA ranger. There's almost no chance for you to not get 2 conditions off every 5 seconds, except if the person has Purge. And that's on a 20-s recharge anyways.

This isnt news to me... My point is with an experienced Cripshot (with Sig/Malice or Mend Touch, most likely) you do not need a YAA war, and thus can use Evis and/or other skills which would be more useful at the stand. IE, a Shock War+Cripshot is still a very strong 2 man split, so is a Bulls Charge or other Sword war, etc. More importantly, there is room for a SHields Up on other warrior builds, whereas a YAA is hard pressed to find room for it. SHields Up, as i said, is a really excelent skill both at VoD (where it really shines, and as VoD is what normally happens when splitting...) and in split situations, and can really give a split the edge it needs if it may otherwise be killed.

Wasteland Squidget · Jan 09, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

I think the Melandru Dervish is a little bit stronger in that split than a YAA warrior. Imbue Health just owns when it comes to keeping your healer alive, and the scythe AoE is nice for quickly dropping knights and footmen groups. The Rt/E can carry hex snares anyway, making condition snares irrelevant.

Bankai · Jan 10, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

I think the Melandru Dervish is a little bit stronger in that split than a YAA warrior. Imbue Health just owns when it comes to keeping your healer alive, and the scythe AoE is nice for quickly dropping knights and footmen groups. The Rt/E can carry hex snares anyway, making condition snares irrelevant.

YAA can be used to cover the daze on the monks, so 1 mending touch won't do the job.

Patrograd · Jan 10, 2007, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

YAA can be used to cover the daze on the monks, so 1 mending touch won't do the job.

I was flag running last night against a split of YAA and Broadhead arrow ranger. While it is true to say that I am when it comes to flag running something worse than mediocre, this split killed me extremely quickly. Because of the daze I couldnt even get off a mending touch or a heal breeze and was dead before I really knew what had hit me.

Seamus Finn · Jan 10, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

I haven't seen the Rt/E too much in American games(though I want to since I have an affinity for this otherwise marginalized class). I know Everfrost was running it; is it mostly a euro thing at the moment?

HolyHawk · Jan 10, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

I'll change the subject a little way around, but I gotta ask. When is the split actually worth it? We've been running split basec characters, and making progress getting people sent back to deal with us, and getting vod advantages. However, especially with eurospike, mesmers take down all our npcs so easilly after that it doesn't even seem to have been worth splitting. Is there any "correct" way to choosing how to run or not a split?

JR · Jan 10, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

I haven't seen the Rt/E too much in American games(though I want to since I have an affinity for this otherwise marginalized class). I know Everfrost was running it; is it mostly a euro thing at the moment?

Any split with a Weapon of Remedy Rit is commonly being referred to as "Eurosplit".

Stealth Rider · Jan 10, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Any split with a Weapon of Remedy Rit is commonly being referred to as "Eurosplit".

So Euros get two builds and Americans get one? I DEMAND KOREOSPLIT!!!!

Quote:

I'll change the subject a little way around, but I gotta ask. When is the split actually worth it? We've been running split basec characters, and making progress getting people sent back to deal with us, and getting vod advantages. However, especially with eurospike, mesmers take down all our npcs so easilly after that it doesn't even seem to have been worth splitting. Is there any "correct" way to choosing how to run or not a split?

There was a thread about splitting a while back, posted by JR. Really insightful thread, and i definately reccomend reading it, but i'm not sure of the link. its in this section, probably one or two pages down. Title= Splitting Theory.

Clinically Proven · Jan 11, 2007, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Go Go search request:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10037564

Etrik · Jan 11, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinically Proven

Go Go search request:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10037564

If people can't find that by themselves, they shouldn't be allowed to own a computer, let alone GvG. Ouch, yes, but true.

Thom Bangalter · Jan 11, 2007, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Americans get all spikes that aren't two mesmer/two warrior spikes, so that's something. And of course most things ending in "-way".

Etrik · Jan 11, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Americans get all spikes that aren't two mesmer/two warrior spikes, so that's something. And of course most things ending in "-way".

Orbway? I wanna go back to the euro districts

Bio-Flame · Jan 12, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

I think most people here are talking about the power of YAA Warrior + BHA Ranger + Rit/E against the Eurospik-ish team builds.

My guild plays a split build (but different than that 5-3 split) and we have faced some of those 5-3 splits... I must say we weren't that impressed with its power.
The main idea is to immediatly go for the Rit and he'll go down pretty easily with nobody to help him.

That Rit/E is very vulnerable to interruts, gales, blackouts, e-denial, knockdowns, snares.... and he has nobody to help him.
The YAA Warrior and BHA Ranger can be harassed with blinds and snares and general anti-melee/damage stuff. While those measures will not completly stop them, they will slow them down enough for you to kill their Rit.
After the Rit goes downs, they all go down fairly easily.

Again, against 8vs8 builds or Eurospike builds, that split is fairly effective but then again most splits are fairly effective against Eurospike.
What I am trying to say here is while the 5-3 split build is a good one it is by no means "the best" split around.

Seamus Finn · Jan 12, 2007, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bio-Flame

I think most people here are talking about the power of YAA Warrior + BHA Ranger + Rit/E against the Eurospik-ish team builds.

My guild plays a split build (but different than that 5-3 split) and we have faced some of those 5-3 splits... I must say we weren't that impressed with its power.
The main idea is to immediatly go for the Rit and he'll go down pretty easily with nobody to help him.

That Rit/E is very vulnerable to interruts, gales, blackouts, e-denial, knockdowns, snares.... and he has nobody to help him.
The YAA Warrior and BHA Ranger can be harassed with blinds and snares and general anti-melee/damage stuff. While those measures will not completly stop them, they will slow them down enough for you to kill their Rit.
After the Rit goes downs, they all go down fairly easily.

Again, against 8vs8 builds or Eurospike builds, that split is fairly effective but then again most splits are fairly effective against Eurospike.
What I am trying to say here is while the 5-3 split build is a good one it is by no means "the best" split around.

Maybe you haven't played against a good rit? I admittedly haven't seen the character in action too much, but guessing his bar to be packing gale, freezing gust, armor of mist, vengeful and weapon of remedy and still have room for a solid 100-ish heal, if he were focused he would have plenty of opportunity to vengeful/remedy spam(even through a galer) which would HURT whatever was damaging him/her pretty severly(given the skirmish setting) as well as being able to gale or snare any incoming wars or blackouting mesmers as well as whatever defensive split characters need targeting. He is by no means invincible, but at the same time the two other characters in his split have great degen, damage, snares, and disables(broadhead) of their own that should be a great burden to the opposing split. Not unbeatable, but if played right, you have a character that damages while he heals/remove conditions(and at a rapid pace). That's quite strong(theoretically at least, in my opinion).

OniMaster · Jan 12, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I think one of the biggest strengths of splits is being able to adapt IN GAME and create situations where you are dominant.

Typically that means that you start with your set split, but at any point in the game, you are going to have to adapt it.

Comparing the BHA to a crip shot, personally I feel way more comfortable going into a "tough" gvg with a crip shot. I feel that in almost any skirmish, the crip shot is a very effective character. What that means is that within a game, if I want to apply flag stand pressure, I can send off my crip shot "into the wild" to skirmish with their flagger and understand that he has the ability to disengage at will while still effectively shutting down the flagger. (natural stride is ridiculously powerful on a crip shot).

on the contrary, I dont really feel BHA in 1 v 1 situations, even when its BHA vs Caster. In the 1 on 1s, BHA becomes a lot easier to dodge as.. naturally you will always have your focus on the ranger and can dodge them much easier.

Further, with my crip shot, I can put the ranger in both an offensive, or defensive role. Over the course of 20 minutes, alot can happen, and being able to send your crip shot back on a defensive split is a major + IMO.

I dont think there is really alot of "doubt" that on a 3 man gank vs a monk, the BHA outperforms the crip shot, but really, is it that big of a deal? We run a crip, war, ele split and unless the monk was parked in the base to begin with, he isn't going to make it back. If the monk is parked in the npcs before we get there (typically against teams that power run their first flag), again, the BHA would be nice to get more pressure on him with ranged, but realistically, at that point your split can break up a bit and keep taking out the flagger etc etc.

I sorta.. cringe when I see splits that are built around SET numbers. I think it really takes away from strong "split" play which IMO is all about adapting to the other teams build and using your extra utility and mobility to create dominating matchups.

For example, when you take YAA off the warrior, to me it really limits what I can do with him. One of the things I like to do on my YAA against hyper defensive teams when I end up in main group (either defending a flag.. push back from the split.. or collapsing back when they send too many back to base) is to push past them and harass their flag runner. Again, If I have taken off my YAA in favour of the crip shots cripple, I really dont have that luxury anymore in that I am going to have to ask my crip shot to escort me :P.

The pre-planned 3 man splits are nice to ensure you have a decent amount of synergy, but I think its a mistake to plan out your entire game around those three characters sticking.

Patccmoi · Jan 12, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

We use a slightly different Rt/E going Channeling-Restoration-Air using Caretaker's as elite instead of Remedy, and MB&S as direct heal instead of Soothing. Condition removal is handled with Wielder's Remedy + Vengeful Weapon, and we usually fit an extra direct nuke, either Channeled Strike or Wielder's Strike (Wielder's tend to be more useful in splits cause of cast time but Channeled is better at stand).

You lose the pressure of Remedy, but Caretaker's + Channeled/Wielder's Strike can allow you to help spiking running people. Mostly, Caretaker's allow for very good energy management and you can chain Caretaker's-Vengeful-MB&S without every actually losing energy. MB&S is a really good direct heal and harder to interrupt than Soothing Memories.

It's not necessarily as good in a 5-3 split (we don't use it for that, so it's hard to tell) but it's still very efficient in split situations and does very well at handling gankers in general. It's also really nice at flag stand because he can directly assist on target with Caretaker's-Channeled to spike for close to 200 damage. In general i think i like it more at flag stand because being able to concentrate your damage with your team is much more useful than having random life steals that just get eat up by Heal Party/LoD, and if you need direct healing MB&S is really good to have.

MaaKotka · Jan 18, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Couple of things I have noticed while playing against this "eurosplit":
1. While their split squad is pretty effective, their ritualist is very vulnearable against me/e bsurge mesmer who has diversion. We send against them our zb/infuse monk, bsurge mesmer and our splitter which is usually yaa war or some solo assassin. Most of time that fight is either pretty even or sligthly on our side.
2. Their flagstandteam isn't very strong. Those 2 dervisher are pretty much everything they have offer as offence and they have pretty hard time catching up that monk while they don't have anything else defence except those 2 monks. I really don't understand why those teams have that me/e runner who has bsurge, because he is all the time running flag if they don't want to give morale to us and that character doesn't have any spells that has longer range than spellrange (LoD, HP, aegis, extinguish mainly). So everytime I have played against that team they have got overwhelmed at flagstand faster than their dervishes has gotten anything killed. Mayby our monk had died once but that is it. Not a big deal when we can kill their flagger or atleast force him to stay at their base and getting moraleboosts and therefore helping defencive team to keep with that split squad.

It is nice build to play against people who don't know what to do against it, but not too hard to win with normal balanced team. It can still be very powerful against eurospike. But after all any splitbuild should be pretty strong against it.